Interview with Author Meeg Pincus & Illustrator Meridth McKean Gimbel of “Door by Door”

For Meeg: You say on your website that you “started working on Sarah's story, with her blessing and cooperation, before she became a senator (when she was the first openly transgender person to speak at a national political convention), and before all the banning of LGBTQ+ children's books took on its current furor.” In what ways has the book - or your feelings about it - changed since then?

Meeg: When I originally approached Sarah about sharing her story with kids, I had envisioned it beginning with her asking for a podium for Christmas as an adolescent (where she practiced and memorized Obama’s DNC speech) and ending with her speaking at the DNC herself as a young woman. In fact, that was the version that she first read and liked, and that my agent submitted to editors. That version didn’t sell, though it was a near-miss with Kelly Delaney, the Penguin Random House editor who ultimately came back to us and acquired it after Sarah became America’s first openly transgender senator. Then, I revised the story to end with her becoming a senator, and Kelly encouraged me to start even earlier in Sarah’s childhood to show how young she was when she knew her “two truths” (her political dreams and her gender), which I did.

Interestingly, while I was disappointed not to sell the book the first time around, I think the timing worked out as it was meant to, as Sarah’s career has soared to new heights and as the need for support for trans representation in children’s books has become so much more widely known and dire. The book bans are harrowing and keep me up at night – not for our own book specifically, but for the ethos behind it all, and for all the children who will not be able to see themselves or grow compassion for others by being denied access to the diversity of humanity. My only hope is that these bans will mobilize the vast majority of people who support LGBTQ+ people and representation to speak up, support all of the banned books (of which our book is now one) and vote out representatives who are trying to deny and erase the existence of diversity in every community. This loud minority will win unless this happens.

For Meeg: In Door by Door as well as on your website and in the content of your other children’s books, you talk about the importance of being kind, celebrating what makes us who we are, and learning about one another’s stories. What is an example of an interaction with a young child (one of your own children or from a visit to a school or library) where the child really embodied these ideas? What did it mean to you to hear, see, or be a part of that moment?

Meeg: I’m eager to hear what kids have to say about Door by Door as I have more interactions with them around it. Many of my previous books have been about animals and the environment, so the interactions that come to mind are around that. At heart, I hope my books can spark kids to feel compassion for all living beings and take action around what sparks their hearts. I’ve received letters from kids about how they read about P-22, the mountain lion in Los Angeles I wrote about in Cougar Crossing, and then dove into learning about cougars and urban wildlife and joined The National Wildlife Federation. A group of kids went on a crusade to lessen plastic use at their school after reading Ocean Soup. Kids have planted milkweed in their gardens after reading Winged Wonders. A classroom wanted to learn more about Judaism after reading Miep and the Most Famous Diary. These stories mean more to me than anything and they are at the heart of why I write what I write.

For both: How did it feel to create content - whether words or images - of and about someone who is still living their story? How closely did you work with Sarah McBride, and what made you anxious as well as confident in the process? 

Meridth:  Senator Sarah McBride has always been so inspiring to me. Meeg did such a lovely job with writing about Sarah’s journey growing up. It’s touching to see how Sarah grew into her leadership roles, fully embraced her gender identity, and eventually shared her true self with her loved ones. Considering all the vitriol pointed towards the LGBTQ+ community, that is also directed at queer and trans kids, we need stories like this one, to show them that as Sarah has said, “[kids] can grow up as themselves, and dream big dreams all at the same time.” We’ve always needed more LGBTQ+ books out there in libraries and bookstores, but we especially need them now.

My biggest concern while illustrating Sarah’s story was how I would visually represent her before she came out as a transgender woman. Many trans people feel discomfort or even trauma when looking at images of themselves before they transition. It was important to be mindful of that, and to create illustrations that felt true to who Sarah has always been as a person. We were very fortunate to have Sarah review all the art created for this story. She’s been really generous with her time and has been an integral part of helping us create a respectful representation of her life.

I think I was most confident in choosing the color palette. This is a pride book about a politician. The colors were pretty much set from the get-go. I had fun placing trans and pride colors throughout the book. And I am happy that the endpages have been received as I intended. The opening pages, with their blue and grey doors closed, symbolizing how the world saw Sarah before she came out, and how restricting that was to her. After we read how she embraced her identity and excelled in politics, we see the closing endpages with rainbow-colored doors. Sarah’s blue door has been opened, and a triumphant trans wave of colors sparkle through the doorway.

Meeg: As Meridth said, Sarah was so gracious and enthusiastic in working with us to share her story with kids. And I would never have written it without her blessing and cooperation. While there may be some living subjects about whom I could write without their participation, because Sarah’s story is so personal, and I understand deeply how sensitive it is for most trans people to share about their pre-transition past, in this particular case I never would write it without her.

Sarah and I connected through mutual colleagues in the trans rights community, so she knew going in that I was working in the community and have a very closed loved one who is trans. But I still had concerns that I was not the right person to write it as a cis woman, as I believe strongly in the importance of  “own voices.” I asked Sarah if she would like to co-author it, but she preferred me to write it with her input, and she had faith in me being able to capture the emotional depths of her experiences, which helped me have confidence in myself. I channeled all the emotions I knew and experienced with my trans loved one and all the trans folks I had become close with over the years, and all that Sarah shared about her own journey, into the writing with all the love I have, always knowing Sarah would have the last say, which was most important.

I also made clear from the start that I’d only feel comfortable with an illustrator who was a member of the TGNC (transgender/gender non-conforming) community, as in many ways the illustrations are even more intimate than the words with this story, and not just anyone could tackle such a sensitive task. Meridth was my very first choice and they went beyond my and Sarah’s wildest dreams in how they illustrated the book. Beyond Meridth’s experience as an openly nonbinary person, their ability to bring deep emotions to their drawings is what put the illustrations over the top and allowed Sarah to feel comfortable looking at herself depicted at every stage of life. (And, by the way, I squealed with joy when I first saw those fabulous, powerful door-themed endpages!)

For both: Can you describe your collaboration on Door by Door? How much interaction did you have throughout the process of writing/illustrating it?

Meridth: I submitted rough sketches and then my final illustrations to my art director Liz Tardiff, and my editor, Kelly Delaney, to review. They then would share my art with Meeg Pincus, the author, and most importantly with Senator McBride. I think because of the personal nature of Senator McBride’s journey of embracing her gender identity and life aspirations, we could not have done this book without her feedback.

Meeg and I didn’t chat with each other until the book was on the way to the printer. This is my debut book, but I’m pretty sure that’s typical for publishing. I will say, I can see that Meeg would be a wonderful collaborator. She writes beautifully, with such heart, and she leaves plenty of space for the illustrator.

Meeg: Aw, thank you Meridth. I’m just so thrilled and honored to get to be a part of your debut book. It’s a very special thing.

And, yes, it is standard practice in traditionally published picture books that the author and illustrator do not communicate through the creative process. The editor serves as the middle-person, communicating with both author and illustrator separately and passing sketches and information along. This allows for each creator to have our own process, which adds to the depth of the finished project. I, for one, love the surprise of seeing how an illustrator interprets and adds to my words. In every single book of mine, the illustrators have added dimensions I never could have even imagined, and I think if we had talked through it, they might not have had the freedom to do that. The feedback I try to give, as I write nonfiction, is factual or contextual, just to make sure everything is as accurate as possible. Also, as I am such an advocate of diverse representation in picture books, I tend to nudge for more of that – to include even more representations of different races, cultures, body sizes, disabilities.

As I mentioned above, I could not be more thrilled with how Meridth illustrated Sarah’s journey and my words, and I couldn’t wait to connect with them once the book was off to the printer!

For Meridth: Does the way you approach your illustrations for fiction differ from the way you approach them for nonfiction? If so, how?

Meridth: Interestingly enough, my process is pretty similar. I quite enjoy going down the rabbit hole of research. I read comp picture books, learn about environments, look at pictures of diverse folks, architecture, read stories about the main character’s contemporaries, and try to let all that research form the look and feel of my illustrations. I suppose the biggest difference between the two genres is that with nonfiction you are less flexible on what the characters or environments could look like.

For Meridth: Can you tell us about one (or a couple) illustrations in Door by Door that you feel particularly passionate about or proud of? 

Meridth:  I think one of my favorite spreads might be page 10-11. We see how painful it is for young Sarah to be put in the wrong line at school. On the right side of the page, she is embraced and supported by her friends only to find herself struggling again at nighttime. The weight of her knowledge that she is a girl, yet living in a world where everyone sees her as a boy, is too much. Sarah wrote in her memoir about the “homesickness” she experienced in her body pretransition. I like these sad illustrations because, although it’s hard to illustrate something so heavy, they are integral to Sarah’s story and her triumph of reclaiming and embracing her identity. I think these windows into Sarah’s gender journey will help so many kids feel seen and empowered.